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Jun 17, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50
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#21 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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Quote:
But PvE is retarded at the moment; look at how things are with the professions: Assassins - Perma or damage + SY. Warriors - damage + SY. Dervishes - beaten by Assassins = pretty useless (except for niche roles, eg. Avatar of Melandru, Orders spamming etc). Necros - in hero teams lots of options. In player teams throw Barbs MoP Orders + maintain SoH. Mesmers - in hero teams VoR. In player teams pretty useless (niche roles again) unless using CoP. Elementalists - E/Mo Monking. Monks - if E/Mo Monking is viable, useless. Otherwise fill in the niches where E/Mo isn't viable (unless you go RoJ + CoP). Rits - ? Paragons - spam SY. Rangers - ? Elementalists aren't at the bottom of the PvE heirachy for sure, but does the PvE heirachy look very balanced to you? What gives that the DPS of a well-build Assassin or Warrior is twice as high as that of almost everyone else? What gives that Paragons have one and only one competitive build, that Rits and Rangers have nothing to do? I play Elementalists in PvE and I have no problems doing most of HM. In fact I've H/H'ed every single difficult area in the game (except Shards HM, which I have not tried). I've even done it without consumables and other PvE buffers. But I hate how to be competitive, I am forced to avoid Elementalist skills and focus on the secondary profession. I hate how the entire profession, marketed as a DPS class, winds up being one of the worst DPS classes in the game, unless I (guess what?) use more secondary skills and swing a sword or daggers or something. I think there's reason for Elementalist players to be discontent, and there're also reasons for Rangers, Paragons, Rits, Monks and Dervishes to be discontent. But I doubt ANet will fix things, they simply don't do enough for PvE. I'll just go with the flow and be happy I didn't start as a Ritualist. Last edited by Jeydra; Jun 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM // 10:09.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34
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#22 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
Last edited by bungusmaximus; Jun 17, 2009 at 10:38 AM // 10:38.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:39 AM // 10:39
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#23 | |||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Guild: LHV
Profession: R/N
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Just another point of view (main Ranger char). 
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45
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#24 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
Besides that, there's magic called daze, so eles suck because they got thunderclap and rangers suck cos they have Broad Head amirite? :P And don't bring up technobabble, because any class can run that, not just eles. Last edited by bungusmaximus; Jun 17, 2009 at 10:51 AM // 10:51.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32
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#25 |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Simple fix: half the armour increase monsters get to elemental dmg in HM or have it 3/4 of what it was before. This will allow ele nukers to become more viable whilst not having to buff/nerf half of the existing game
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Jun 17, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56
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#26 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the wall
Profession: Me/
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I'm sorry but I fail to see how Ele's are underpowered. Sure in HM their role is changed a bit but thats no big deal, infact it adds diversity for them.
Earth Eles are always good. Wards + KD spells. Blinding surge eles. Searing flames eles. Infuse health spamming eles. Support/smite eles. Water builds are good in HM also. There are plenty of options for HM eles to play that include both damage dealing or support, or a mix, and I see no need to buff a PvE skill for them. Actually in all honesty, I think Eles are the most balanced class in PvE. In NM you get used to nuke nuke nuke, which works, but then HM does what its supposed to do. Make you think outside of damage and bring builds that are effective in the area. Lot's of KD? Bring Ward of stability! Lots of physicals? Bring Blinding surge! I like to think HM actually makes eles think unlike a lot of classes....unless your running discordway of course XD Last edited by ajc2123; Jun 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM // 12:06.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00
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#27 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BelgiUm
Profession: E/
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ele's shouldn't be buffed , we already do high dmg.
actually nothing should be buffed atm only assassin are OP
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Jun 17, 2009, 12:54 PM // 12:54
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#28 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: Hard Mode Legion [HML]
Profession: N/
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Quote:
When you are lucky enough to have a decent guild that allows some expirimenting you can get away with this. Or when you have a couple of nice friends who also like to experiment. But most of the players ain't in such a situation. They have to run the current meta builds when teaming because that's demanded by the people they play with. So they either comply or play solo with H&H. It's been like that for years now and won't change. Why play a FC sig smiter when you ain't accepted in teams? Same for any other profession/build that's not in the meta. Deadly combinations and powerfull builds are worthless if you can't team up with others. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21
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#29 | |||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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Quote:
If minions die in one hit in HM how is it that standard Discordway can easily have 20 minions on the battlefield? Could it be that monsters suddenly stopped attacking? Sins deal enough damage already because it is possible for them to deal 200++ DPS to the Master of Damage (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=93). Warriors don't die in 2 nukes because that would be like 300 damage per nuke, which, because of Warriors' high armor, means that nuke would kill me in a hit. If it has happened before I don't remember it. Quote:
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Load up any Elementalist build you want, go to the Master of Damage and test your DPS over a minute. Compare vs. the screenshots in linked post above. If you can do anything near 50% of what the Assassin did, I'll be pretty damn impressed. I'll tell you I just gave it a try with a typical Searing Flames bar, using Necrosis, By Ural's Hammer and 16 Fire, and I got ... 54 DPS. Now tell me. Is there a reason why an Assassin or a Warrior should pump out four to five times the DPS of an Elementalist? You can come up with lots of mitigating factors, eg. Elementalists hit at range, Elementalists hit more than one target (as though Critscythe doesn't), Elementalists are less vulnerable to hate, etc. But then tell me. With four to five times the DPS do you really think Elementalist damage is viable in a coordinated team? You're welcome to try to beat that kind of damage with any other class or any other build. If you'll say Searing Flames isn't good, I gave it another try with Savannah Heat. Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Fireball, Immolate. This time I get ... 87 DPS (before I run out of energy). This is against an AL 60 target who is doesn't move and so eats every single tick of damage. We're not in HM. Quote:
PS: I don't think hexes last half duration in HM. Quote:
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36
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#30 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: Amazon Basin [AB]
Profession: Mo/Me
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Critical Agility fixed a HUGE hole in PvE assassins, we might as well take the same lazy approach for eles. Anet is not going through the effort to do any real overhauls of the class or hard mode anytime soon, we'd be lucky if we can get even one skill tweaked.
One of the trickier questions though is whether there is any effect like this in the game (armor penetration applied to other spells) - notice most skill changes of late, they haven't bothered adding any truly "new" effects. (E.G. the PvP Aegis is just the Shadow Form effect, weaken knees comes from shameful fear, etc.) If a lot of new code has to be written, that makes the idea unlikely. Still the solution is obvious- elemental spells need their damage buffed greatly without buffing other types of spells. Whether that's done through armor penetration, damage%, or elemental attributes, hardly matters. The only other simple fix I can see is that they go back and reduce the HM scattering - RoJ (soon) and MoP are the only scatter-causing skills that see regular use in HM, everything else is basically screwing eles. Last edited by FoxBat; Jun 17, 2009 at 01:44 PM // 13:44.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48
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#31 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
You don't HAVE to bring them, but they're not useless. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48
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#32 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Profession: E/
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I kept hearing how ANet kept bragging that they have created one of the most balanced games ever and etc.
And while that might be true for PvP, have no clue don't really play it... things are totally messed up otherwise: - the best nukers are Mo - totally odd - the best healers (not protection) are E (the worst nukers as well, even Rt do better with the life stealing thing - really) - exactly what people would expect from an E character - the best tanks are Mo and A - pretty weird And those are just the big obvious cracks in their perfect balance. Would seem that a simple fix for ANet would be to swap the class names between Mo and E  Let me tell you a story called the "day I've quited JQ" (and that is NM even): So I go play JQ with my E. Go at a shrine cast: [Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinai's Heat] See some yellow numbers going by, one crappy R runs away and their attacks after I've cast SH almost kill me, but I do manage to finish off the running R with the rest of the skill, taking me quite some time to cap the shrine. Now there comes the shinny Mo. Gets close enough to cast a RoJ, waits a couple of seconds - boom all dead, shrine is gone. What I couldn't do with 3 "powerful nuke" skills, this shinny fellow does with 1. No R ran, nothing in particular he needed to finish off, they all just sat there and died. Now here comes me with my 3 nukes again. Go at it! Cast 1, cast 2, cast 3, R runs, I try to finish it off... ah but wait!!! My shinny monk has room for 7 other skills on his bar and he's still around, so one of those 7 other skills was PS. Oh joy, so now my entire bar with nukes is rendered useless by a dude that was able to cap the shrine with 1 skill and maintain it capped with another. That's true balance! Don't you think? So Mo are the jacks of all trades and apparently the only class this game actually needs. The rest are more or less redundant. They could remove them IMO We'll all be a bunch of happy monks, healing, protecting, nuking, tanking together! Wouldn't that be sweet?
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52
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#33 | |
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Done.
Guild: [JUNK]
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Quote:
Broken in the sense that casters actually feel entitled to be anything other than bitches. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53
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#34 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
.The same is wrong with PvP, the casual forms such as RA, where people flame you because you woke up and felt like playing smite monk. I can solve the OP's problem pretty well, roll a char that people need or play with friends/guildies that actually want to try something. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59
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#35 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: www.mybearfriend.net
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
Profession: E/
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Jun 17, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13
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#36 | ||||||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Guild: LHV
Profession: R/N
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2-Because even thou we play the same game we play it with diff styles 3-Because IGNORING that there are other options dont mean they DONT exist. Quote:
-"What gives that the DPS of a well-build Assassin or Warrior is twice as high as that of almost everyone else?" I thought that eles are in that "everyone else" crowd , my mistake then , sorry. Yeah , i know the difference but reading this ... Quote:
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PS: Only on Bosses , the other ones is the same, you are right. Last edited by Tenebrae; Jun 17, 2009 at 02:22 PM // 14:22.. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00
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#37 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the wall
Profession: Me/
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If you REALLY REALLY need to suggest a buff to a class as a whole, you either need to
A) Choose a CORE skill to change/mess around with. If the character is campaign specific then choose that campaigns skill, not a GWEN skill for a Dervish or a NF skill for an assassin. Preferably NOT elite skills. or B) Change the way the class works as a whole, meaning its primary attribute, armor levels, etc etc. Granted A is much easier then B though. So to buff Elementalist you need to look it its core skills. Unfortunatly they have very few Energy storage Core skills, the ideal place to put a 'buff this class' skill since almost every single Ele uses Energy storage. All you have is Aura of restoration, Elemental Attunement (Elite) or Glyph of lesser energy. You can't change Glyph of Lesser energy, its a nice balanced skill, Aura is already buffed. Elemental Attune you can add armor penetration or something, but, its an elite skill and forces you to drop other elites in favor of it. Option A is looking harder and harder isnt it  Then you can look at the elementalist Core skills as a whole and look for something that the majority of Ele's can put in their bars without forcing them to waste too many points in one attribute. What I notice most is Conjure Frost/fire/lightning. I can see something such as adding SPELL armor penetration damage in addiction to + attack damage, there for boosting each attributes power effectively. The con, No Conjure earth, however Earth is more of a defensive line anyways. This so far looks like the best option for me. Or you could add + armor penetration to the Attunements. Even earth will get a + damage then. HOWEVER this is all considering 1) Eles need the buff and 2) PvE ONLY changes. Granted I don't think They need to be changed, but if you want to buff a class as a whole for PvE, you need to look at their Core skills so no Ele is left behind. My 2 cents |
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Jun 17, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11
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#38 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Guild: The Sapphire Rose [TSR]
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I still don't get why some people keep saying elementalists can't do damage in HM. Have they even tried? You'll need a PvE skill or 2 to get the same kind of damage in HM as you get in NM but eles CAN do some serious damage in HM.
Take this screenshot for example (resized a bit smaller, and this is just one build) : http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...eHMraptors.jpg Raptors, in HM. 49 damage per hit, 61 with Weaken Armor from MoW. Incidentally, in NM a 60AL target would take only 40 damage if no buffs were used. Hmmmmm far more damage done in HM than without buffs in NM. Oh and as a side effect - AoE blindness, AoE knockdowns, melee blocking and a midline party damage buff through the ebon ward. And with Assassins Promise i can do it all again in a few seconds. You'll have to excuse Mhenlo in that screenie. He got caught sleeping. My ranks for the PvE skills used were r8 vanguard, r8 delver, r9 asuran but tbh the only improtant one there is the vanguard, and it's not hard to get that to r7-8. Have fun. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12
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#39 | ||||||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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That's not the point though. The point is that Elementalists are marketed as DPS classes and cannot deal DPS. In a team playing for fun where you play any decent build, sure you can go ahead and run SF SH or whatever. You can run AP Churning Earth Eruption etc if you so want. But if you're in a team that's playing for peak efficiency, peak damage, peak speed, then Elementalists and damage don't mix. The fact that they are usually the best PvE healer doesn't matter. They shouldn't be the best PvE healer. Ether Renewal is overpowered, but everything else about Elementalists in PvE is underpowered. Quote:
By the way yes I'd think that's a fair change. After all, Rits are pretty much the weakest PvE class right now. |
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Jun 17, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14
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#40 | ||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the wall
Profession: Me/
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lol. Quote:
You can't go by what the Manual says anymore, its outdated lol. Lot's o things are marked one way but used another. OH OH Crazy Idea! (Not mocking you Jeydra I just thought it would be funny) Crippling Slash Hex attack Target foe is crippled. For 30-70 seconds target foe Is Hexed with Crippling slash. Whenever hit by firestorm, target for takes + 50 Damage per hit. Last edited by ajc2123; Jun 17, 2009 at 03:40 PM // 15:40.. |
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